User talk:KGill/archive16

Contents 1 Gamba Sonata, BuxWV 268 (Buxtehude, Dietrich) 2 Copyright (General) 3 P symbol 4 Star 5 Wasenius 6 Lamento di Tristano (Anonymous) 7 Mozart Church Sonatas (arr, for piano) 8 Tags Q-S 9 WIMA transfer to IMSLP 10 Fantasia No.1 and No.2 (Bassano, Giovanni) 11 Shape note categories 12 Category: Scores from... 13 Maldeghem and Busnois 14 Welcome back! 15 Absence 16 AddWork/MainText 17 Paganini variations

Gamba Sonata, BuxWV 268 (Buxtehude, Dietrich)

Dear KGill, Non-PD US was not intended by dating my typeset. Any chance? Thanks --Ralph Theo Misch 00:53, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Do you know if the 1956 Schott edition was published with a continuo realization? If not, the original form of the work probably wouldn't be protected in the US, but I would like to be on the safe side since US law was not amended to restore sanity on this issue except for works first published after 2002. Thanks, KGill _{talk email} 01:06, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply, KGill! I'll answer next session. --Ralph Theo Misch 01:12, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm back... Yes , the Schott edition (by Folkmar Längin) was published with a continuo realization (quite individual in parts). Maybe I make an additional edition with some suggestions regarding the figuring. Regards --Ralph Theo Misch 21:03, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the information - based on your reply I have changed the US status of your typeset to 'checked' because it is debatable at best whether the original version of the work is protected in that country. Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 01:12, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Re the Längin edition - I doubt it's possible to remove editorial insertions in a way that would make such a "re-edition" really clean enough - the editorial insertions sometimes are just too hard to extract from one's understanding of the score, I think (even on those occasions when the editor points every last one out, and frankly that's not going to be always - if the composer left out an accidental the editor may reinsert some without comment, some will keep as the composer chose to leave marked, also without comment... (sometimes not even a (♭).) as these are minor issues (no pun in ten.) often enough. or similar even more minor things... but will assuredly notice if someone else in their edition decides to reinsert all the accidentals the same way... e.g.) Eric 02:36, 20 August 2011 (UTC) (and yes, I'm aware that those issues don't reach the level of "creativity" required by most laws, but then the editor would compare other things, like how much one's suggestions were inspired by his actual realizations. This is I suspect, having attempted to edit and actually edited at least a little- in some cases some really painful manuscripts that I haven't successfully finished editing (e.g. a copy of a scan of an Italian string quartet) - unavoidable and not some sort of personal criticism truly!

Copyright (General)

Hi KGill. I think you might be interested in this. Do you have any serious reservations? Respectfully, Emery 03:01, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Emery, I'll reply over on your talk page. Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 03:06, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi KGill. I created a project page here and was wondering if you would like to be an official member of the project. I also responded to your very nice reservations about the project on my talk page - I hope my reply quelled your concerns a bit :-) Respectfully, Emery 02:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I want to say I would be happy to join, but I am somewhat reluctant because of (1) my lack of available resources on the subject (since I don't have ready access to LC, I would be relegated to copyediting and perhaps making suggestions from the sidelines) and (2) the fact that I am already preoccupied with several tasks, including CR, new composer categories, general maintenance/help, updating MediaWiki:Genres, and now the publisher pages project. In addition, I only have a little over half a month left of my period of high activity on IMSLP, so I would perhaps not be the ideal candidate for membership of the project team. I think you have successfully quelled my concerns though - I agree on the subject of Wikipedia, having had experience with members of that community coming over here and wanting to decrease the purview of this site in order to move more content over there. (I mainly included that point to air the issue and settle it in advance, to be honest.) Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 02:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

P symbol

Hi KGill. Thank you for the correction, I don't think the wording was best. Even though the P does stand for phonogram, like you said, the phrase afterwards that said "used to protected sound recordings" was important. What I meant to imply was that one cannot use the term "phonorecord" as a valid copyright notice. One can use the term "copyright" to replace the © symbol, but that does not extend to the P symbol. In any case, it wasn't altogether clear :-) Respectfully, Emery 20:41, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that; I probably should have brought it up with you before jumping in and making an edit. At least it resulted in the passage being cleared up though :-) Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 20:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I've seen those P symbols before but took them to mean "performed" (in the year) (for a recording made in a certain year and reissued, on CD for instance, later). My mistake, though it sometimes amounts to the same thing :) Eric 02:27, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Star

Thank you — what a nice and unexpected surprise. But we still have a long ways to go! Respectfully yours, Emery 22:37, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome :-) You have already deserved it in my mind with the amount of work you have done on the US. Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 22:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Wasenius

Sure, I'll have a look, I believe it was a biography of Sibelius. Eric 02:20, 20 August 2011 (UTC) Here's one source - Sibelius.fi page on Sibelius symphony 2 - another more biographical and less conclusive one I suppose - from Sibelius: a guide to research (p.57?)

Thanks - I had already seen the second source (it's linked to on the page), but it's good to see confirmation that the publisher was also known as Bis during its 'lifetime'. However, I seem to remember you saying somewhere that in 1908 Wasenius was actually acquired by another publisher, or something like that? From what I've found out it seems that they shut down altogether in 1907, but if they were resurrected then that would be important to determine :-) Thanks again, KGill _{talk email} 02:32, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

It's been awhile and that is not ringing any bells, but will have a look! ... Eric 02:41, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Lamento di Tristano (Anonymous)

Hi, could you move this page to the section arrangements on my composer page? Thanks, VictorEijkhout 16:11, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

It is in fact already there, though you might not be able to see it logged out yet - due to the server's automatic caching mechanism, composer categories frequently take up to 3 days to update for new pages added. It was already marked as an arrangement by you, though, and logged in should appear as such. Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 16:43, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Mozart Church Sonatas (arr, for piano)

I didn't see on the forums what the decision is about these. The one I listened to sounded pretty good, so I am inclined to say yes in this case. Carolus 23:35, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, there hasn't really been a decision per se, but today discussion was opened on the issue of allowing MIDI-generated audio files here, so I figured we might as well keep any uploaded from now on since in light of current developments we will have little choice but to do so anyway in the near future. KGill _{talk email} 23:39, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

It would have helped if I had logged in! :)) Carolus 23:48, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Tags Q-S

I was just getting to add that tag! Foiled again. Should it also have “Scores featuring brass ensemble”, as I believe the Berlioz Requiem does? Philip _{@ © talk} 03:19, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you're right - I forgot about that somehow. Sorry for the edit conflict ;-) I was wondering what categories it should go in and looked for another multi-brass-ensemble one; I found two Biber works which seemed to just include it in the orchestra (in the category entry for the entire instrumentation), and I'm wondering if this is really the best practice? Should there be an extra comma-separated clause ("4 brass ensembles", etc.) included in that category, or is it really good enough to just lump it in with the orchestra? Thanks, KGill _{talk email} 03:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

The two Biber works are cori spezzati pieces on a colossal scale: basically 6 choirs (some of which are instrumental), 2 organs, and then the extra 2 trumpet ensembles. And a continuo. I think it’s one of those pieces where the specification is going to be sui generis however you want to slice and dice it. The Gothic (and Mahler’s 8th) are in the same sort of mould. Philip _{@ © talk} 03:31, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

All right then, I guess we can just leave them as they are - thanks, KGill _{talk email} 03:34, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Curiously enough, the Mahler 8 tag is slightly weird in the way it’s ordered, and it doesn’t include the extra brass ensemble that is used at the end of each part of the work. If I remember correctly, whoever added the tag initially (Perlnerd?) had left off the choruses – and when I corrected the tag, I also forgot the piece uses organ. So it’s another case of a work using everything including the kitchen sink. Cheers Philip _{@ © talk} 04:36, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

WIMA transfer to IMSLP

Dear KGill, Thanks for your comments on my failed transfer attempt from WIMA. In fact, I *did* use the automated file uploader, but it seems that the url that I wrote in the form was wrong. Instructions are not very clear regarding what exact part of the url must be pasted after "wima://". I have now tried again, and will be grateful if you confirm the correct receipt of the submission.

By the way, regarding the email facilities of IMSLP, I cannot get the system to send me an email confirmation message. I have asked for it three times today, but nothing seems to happen.

Thanks again, and best wishes. Dhzanette 02:40, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Dhzanette. In the second bullet point of the 'Uploading' section of the project page, it says "Copy and paste the full URL for each file you want to upload (i.e., on the WIMA website) after the 'wima://' text found in each 'File' field." Hopefully this will answer your question :-) The second time you tried the upload, it appeared to work fine - at least, a file with the 'WIMA' prefix in its name has been uploaded here and is registered in the copyright review system, and an automated log entry appeared (in other words, exactly what is supposed to happen). Regarding the email confirmation, I don't know why it might do this and cannot do anything to fix it, since I don't have any sort of server admin/codebase access - I would recommend either asking Feldmahler or asking in the appropriate section of the forums if it persists. Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 02:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt answer, KGill. The full url of my file in WIMA is "http://www.icking-music-archive.org/scores/mozart/kv492/ricon.pdf". however, when I put all this after the "wima://" in the form, I got an error answer (there was some problem with the file name, apparently). The same happened when I put "wima://www.icking-music-archive.org/scores/mozart/kv492/ricon.pdf" Only when I put "wima://scores/mozart/kv492/ricon.pdf" did it seem to work. At least, I didn't get an error. If this third option is really the correct, it can hardly be guessed from the instructions. Otherwise, I do not understand why I got the error messages. Any comment? Thanks againDhzanette 03:07, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Wow, that's quite strange - I was not aware that the uploader now only accepted the portion of the URL starting with 'scores' (when I tested it out, it worked for the full URL). I apologize for the discrepancy and will amend the project page immediately. Thanks, KGill _{talk email} 03:13, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, KGill. I did today a new attempt -with Bach's Magnificat- and all seemed to work perfectly as I put the full URL (including the "http://") after the "wima://". Best wishes. Dhzanette 11:51, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

OK, I guess it was just some sort of weird intermittent glitch. I've still kept the note on the project page to try the partial URL if things don't work right. Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 14:44, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Dear KGill: At this very moment I am experiencing the same problem as yesterday. I am trying to upload a file with address wima://http://www.icking-music-archive.org/scores/lully/persee/piv6_3.pdf (this is what appears in the upload form in File #1) and I get as a response the error message "File #1 Error: Error: The file is corrupt or has an incorrect extension. Please check the file and upload again." As far as I can see, I am doing nothing different of what I have been doing today, when I have successfully uploaded a lot of files. The only difference is that I am now using a different computer. Any idea of what is happening? Thank you! Dhzanette 00:26, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

PS: It may sound incredible, but I have now tried with "wima://scores/lully/persee/piv6_3.pdf" in File#1 of the form and it worked! You can see the uploaded file in Lully Persee's page. How is this possible? Dhzanette 00:38, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

I really have no idea, to be perfectly honest. Perhaps you should report the problem to Feldmahler, who is in charge of the programming side of the site and would probably be able to give you an actual answer. :-) Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 01:40, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Fantasia No.1 and No.2 (Bassano, Giovanni)

Hi KGill! There is an error on uploading Wicking files about Fantasia No.1 (Bassano, Giovanni) and Fantasia No.2 (Bassano, Giovanni). Actually they are written by Augustin Bassano (his brother), and not Giovanni. You can see it here: 1. Can you move this scores to the correct composer page? All the best! Feduol 12:56, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Both pages have now been moved. Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 14:33, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

I am sorry about this pieces, I did not know that the composer's name on WIMA was incorrect. I am going to learn better about them. Regards. Feduol 13:22, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Shape note categories

Thanks for the correction at Category:4-shape notation. I've also added now Category:7-shape notation. I'm brand new here (familiar with MediaWiki syntax from Wikipedia though) and can't find any appropriate supercategories for music by notational scheme. Can you help me find what I'm missing? (I could also put the 4- and 7- categories into a new Category:Shape note or some such, but I'm not sure whether that serves a purpose.

There actually is no such category tree - that's probably because we have so few works that would be placed in anything but a general category for standard notation. If you can think of an appropriate way to set it up then I would encourage you to just go ahead with it. :-) KGill _{talk email} 01:33, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Meanwhile I'll leave the categories themselves as empty pages, in the hopes that that's ok. Wareh 01:34, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Category: Scores from...

Hi KGill! I'm in need of some enlightenment. I created this page to track scores from the LOC based upon this page which captures scores from the DKB. As you can see mine doesn't work so well. What have I missed (other than the ability to link those two pages internally in this message)? Thanks! --Cypressdome 01:33, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I think what you forgot to add was the line [[Category:Scores from the Library of Congress]] to be inserted into Template:LOC - that is what actually puts the pages into the category :-) (See Template:DKB for comparison.) Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 01:37, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

It's like magic! Many thanks and best of luck to you. Your absence from IMSLP will be sorely felt by the whole community. Thanks again, --Cypressdome 01:42, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

No problem :-) Thanks for the kind words; I have confidence that my absence will not make that big of a dent in the behind-the-scenes workings of the site, since we have several contributors more than capable of duplicating and, indeed, surpassing the efforts I have put in. I'm less confident that I will be able to 'return' at any point in the future, but one never knows ;-) Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 01:47, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Back soon as you can I hope- and soon, I hope that is. All best. Eric 03:03, 3 September 2011 (UTC) (scores from the library of congress cat- yay, that's a great idea- all the better reason to go around and find places where people didn't have the loc template yet to use, and put it in , I say... well, my opinion and as time allows. erm..ok, just volunteered myself. happens. :) :) )

Maldeghem and Busnois

Hi KGill, welcome back! On Sept. 9 I uploaded this and this. May you have a look (if you have time)? Both files are still blocked and I don't know why. Many thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 21:08, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

It looks like there's an enormous backlog of files uploaded as far back as the 5th (!) that still haven't been tagged. I've released those two from their prison, but I don't really have time at the moment to take care of any others - I'm really busy and I'm not sure when I'll be able to contribute next (possibly in a few more hours). Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 21:12, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot!! --Ralph Theo Misch 21:20, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Ralph. I'm sorry about that - it's really my fault. There are so many files that I put on hold anything other than all permis. There are sometimes over 300 N!/N!/N! files at a time! Respectfully yours, Emery 22:51, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Emery, I've just discovered your message later. See below. It's all o.k. I'm finally not the most important! All the best! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:11, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back!

... even if it's only a fleeting appearance :-) I hope you had a good vacation

Although the copyright tagging backlog might seem large, we've actually kept on top of it pretty well, given the thousands of files that have been uploaded in the last week. The older ones are generally the more complicated cases that you or Carolus would normally deal with. With so few admins around, and a glut of WIMA uploads, you could say it's been a challenging week! — P.davydov 21:23, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back! It has been quite a challenging week with so many WIMA uploads. I think the older ones are simply files that are not all permis, not necessarily more complicated ones. I hope you will be able to contribute more steadily at some point again! Respectfully yours, Emery 22:31, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I would not complain (even more so, because I refused to become a copyright reviewer)! I thought such a thing, given the encouraging amount of files by WIMA. Great job!! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:01, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi all, sorry if it seemed like I was criticizing the efforts of the CR team during the past week. In fact, I have been greatly relieved to see especially Philip, Davydov, and Emery pitch in so enthusiastically this month, and while things would be crazy at the moment no matter how many people are contributing, it seems like everything is being run very efficiently. (By the way, Davydov, it wasn't a vacation - Princeton runs a volunteer community service program every year, and I was working for mural arts projects, a museum, and a homeless shelter the week I was absent.) Unfortunately I don't see myself having that much time to contribute, even on weekends, and I guess I feel a little guilty stringing people along with promises of 'sporadic' contributions or a future permanent return, since both are sort of dubious. In the interests of full disclosure, I'm going to see how I can allocate my time for the rest of this month, and if I find that I can put in only an hour a week or something like that, then I'll probably just resign some or all of my rights - they won't be doing me much good, with the possible exception of CR. (I don't particularly favor being in a representative position on the site without actually being able to fulfill it.)
BTW Emery, I just noticed that you've tagged some WIMA files that didn't use the correct uploader and will therefore have to be added to the manual log. Because this can potentially be a major headache, a little while ago I created Template:MsgWIMAUpload as a boilerplate user message informing them that their contributions will have to be removed since they weren't submitted through the proper channels (you can copy and paste whatever parts of it are applicable to the specific person, since it was designed for a brand new contributor). I honestly think it would be far easier for us to just delete anything that wasn't done right and let the user know than deal with an enormous, ongoing cleanup operation - on top of the one created by the submission itself. Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 03:18, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Absence

Hi KGill. If you have the time, maybe you could take a look at this. Respectfully yours, Emery 00:04, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

AddWork/MainText

Hi KGill,

in the first section is written: All fields are optional except Work Title, Composer (use default), and Piece Style. At the bottom is written: [...] the three mandatory ones (page title, genre, and piece style) [...]. Shouldn't it be (Work Title, Composer and Piece Style)?

And yet another question, how can the titles of the fields be translated into German language? Are there some more "Special pages"? Also the text: "Please don't copy websites....", how can it be changed in German?--TobisNotenarchiv 21:39, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

1. Yes, that's a discrepancy that should probably be corrected.

2. Wouldn't you use MediaWiki:IMSLPAddFileForm/de? It looks like at least some of them are already translated - unless that doesn't show up correctly?

3. Where is that text? I can't find it anywhere.

Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 14:44, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Hello KGill,

1. Done.

2. I want to change AddWorkForm but I can't find it. I found Add Work Special Page Translations but here you can't change it directly, so I added "German version".

3. Sorry for confusion. The English text I'm looking for is. "Please note that all contributions to IMSLP are considered to be released..." --TobisNotenarchiv 21:27, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

2. Whoops, sorry for the slip. MediaWiki:IMSLPAddWorkForm/es exists, though - I guess you could just copy the text on that page over to MediaWiki:IMSLPAddWorkForm/de and replace the Spanish text with German.

3. That text can be found at MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning. I think you can generally use Special:AllMessages to find stuff like that.

Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 14:33, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Paganini variations

Hello KGill,

I think Nel_cor_più_non_mi_sento_(Paganini,_Niccolò) and Variations on 'La Molinara' (Paganini, Niccolò) are the same. Which one is the right title? --TobisNotenarchiv 13:02, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I've merged everything into the first page you linked to; I don't know what the 'correct' title is, but I guess it's more likely to be found under an Italian name. ;-) Cheers, KGill _{talk email} 14:34, 5 November 2011 (UTC)